How much horsepower is too much?

"Spaze" (spazegun2213) 01/16/2014 at 16:10 • Filed to: None

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Silly question right? Mark Donohue once said

If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough horsepower.

You see, I'm not so sure it is that simple. I'm not going to argue that Mark knew a hell of a lot more about cars and racing than I ever will, but I will argue that there is such a thing as too much horsepower. Years ago I used to tell people that right around 300hp for the street was a sweet spot of mine. Any more and you'll only use it to escalate a minor speeding violation into serious jail time. Any less meant that granny with her ten year old Honda Accord will give you a run for your money when merging onto the highway.

I still hold that same thought today even after seeing (and lusting after) the new C7 Z06. Cars like that, the Jaguar F-type and others really make my pants tight and they always will. Their amazingly good looks, coupled with lush symphony's from their perfectly tuned exhausts, all contribute to me wanting to put their posters up in my bedroom like I'm 5 years old again. But I'm starting to question what ludicrous amounts of power is going to accomplish on the street.

So oppo, what do you think? How much horsepower is enough for you?

MIATAAAA > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:13

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300 sounds just about right to me.

MonkeePuzzle > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:14

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I have ~170, its about perfect

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:15

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I've estimated my 68 Montego to around 280, at best 300.

It has enough power that I can rip the tires when ever I feel like it, and when I stomp the pedal it plants me in my seat as it takes off and I've even been motivated to joyously yell out loud.

Sounds like enough to me.

Joe_Limon > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:17

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My opinion aligns with Mark Donohue.

Most people seem to be scared of large hp numbers, but they fail to realize they only come at high revs when you have the throttle floored.

In other words, a high powered car is totally controllable unless you decide to keep the engine speed high and the pedal floored.

Textured Soy Protein > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:17

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1,100 hp. Because that's how much power the Porsche 917/30 that Mark Donohue was talking about made.

Manuél Ferrari > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:17

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It depends on the weight of the car. I agree that something in the 300HP range is more than sufficient for most modern cars. The older super light cars would feel just as quick with less HP.

Of course more HP is always fun. Is it needed? No. Heavier sports cars and sport sedans can stand to have HP figures in the 400-500 range for shits and giggles. They don't need them but it's fun to have that power for occasional fun times off the line (if there is somewhere safe to launch)...

I personally can't imagine ever having something with over 600 HP. A 550 HP car would feel like a fighter jet to me. 600+ would feel like a space ship!

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:19

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I think I'd prefer to look at it in power-to-weight ratio terms. Because 200hp is quite copious in something like a Miata, but in my Taurus, I need the 3.5EB's 365hp to get moving fast.

So for me, personally 365hp is plenty, since I am not driving a track monster. But do I want more power? Yes. Downpipes + a tune will get me well north of 400hp at the crank. It will be fun. Another key thing about these upgrades, they increase throttle response.

So possible, are you making too much power, for track purposes, when your upgrades start affecting throttle response, smoothness, predictability, handling?

At the drag strip those things are somewhat negligible, you want as much power as possible as the car can give you grip for.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:19

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In my mind, 250 is the limit for the front wheels, 400 or so is the limit for the rear wheels, and 600 is the limit for all four wheels.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:19

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I've got 415. It's enough.

But I will say, it's amazing how quickly you normalize to having that much power under your right foot.

A friend with a 500-horse Shelby just came in my office this morning to tell me he's considering upgrading the supercharger so it will make 800...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/16/2014 at 16:19

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What's she weigh?

Spaze > Textured Soy Protein 01/16/2014 at 16:20

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didn't it make something like 1500+ in qualifying trim? Clearly their boost controller went to 11.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MIATAAAA 01/16/2014 at 16:20

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300 in a Miata? Or in a family sedan?

Walfisch > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:20

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The sweet spot for me would be 300hp and 280 lb/ft of torque. Realistically, my car makes 260 HP and I am perfectly happy with that.

I guess another point that should be noted is the road condition that you always drive on. Would that same number of horses be realized and appreciated in small, twisty roads? I do know what you're saying though.

In the end though, this is dependent on the guy behind the wheel.

Jagvar > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:21

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There is never enough.

gt6xxer > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:21

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15.5 lb per 1 whp should about do it. Any more than that and you risk hoon inducing lust.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Joe_Limon 01/16/2014 at 16:22

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Yes, power upgrades sometimes go hand in hand with improve handling characteristics:
- improved throttle response

- perhaps this leads to more predictable power

- power at lower rpm's (better torque & hp curves)

- better gas mileage

Casper > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:22

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It varies from car to car and application to application. The reality is it's going to be a philosophical answer. Mine is every bit that's usable. I always tell people my perfect car has unlimited horse power and torque, but a perfectly tuned power band so I can get as much or as little as I want. If I were at the track, I would never have enough.

In something like a BRZ, I would say 300 HP would be great for street trim. It's really a matter of power to weight. If I were talking about a 70 Cuda, it might be 500 HP.

Spaze > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/16/2014 at 16:24

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I've been in a few cars with HP figures north of 600. They were all rockets... and it amazed me just how fast they kept accelerating past the 120 mph mark.

camaroboy68ss > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:27

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It all depends on the situation. Like a stock c7 zo6 is perfect with all its horsepower since its refined and easily controllable and fairly maintenance free. Now if I'm building a hot rod with a 66 327 small block Chevy putting together a NA 450-500hp motor becomes more of a animal due constant timing adjustments and carb tuning. All the vitals will have to be watched diligently. Have to always worry about heating up and detonation. So too much has to be a case by case thing because it really depends on the engine.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:28

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I think that's the issue once you get past ~300 hp. It's so easy to quickly get to speeds that can get you in serious trouble with the law (and/or the laws of physics).

Tekamul > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:29

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For any given car, the too much horsepower is any amount you are not willing to deploy in its intended environment.

In other words - daily driver that never sees a private course? Well, then, you only need as much as you are willing to apply under the possibly shrouded but watchful eye of enforcement. I think this is why turbos are becoming so popular. People get to feel the 'thrust' of the motor without really wringing out its full potential. They aren't brave/stupid enough to let the whole stable free.

If it's a car you're going to track, then you should grab all the ponies your chassis, or your skills, can handle. Maybe even a little bit more, because no great thing ever came from complacency. And if you had a few more horses to act as a carrot, maybe you'd spend the time to dial in the chassis tune, or get better on your transitions.

If you're headed for the drag strip, infinite ponies for you!

If you're driving your prius to work and back, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, on and on 'til you're dead....27. You need 27 horsepower.

TL;DR : As much as you're willing to actually use.

Wacko > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:30

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all depends on the size weight of the car

Hoccy > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:31

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The sky is the limit.

How much do I need for daily driving? About 60hp per tonne.

Stupidru > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:31

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I've DD'd a 250hp Legacy GT and I always figured that could use another 50-75hp... with that being said I'll say 350hp is "enough"

MIATAAAA > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/16/2014 at 16:31

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Guess ;)

Joe_Limon > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 01/16/2014 at 16:32

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I wish all cars controlled power the way the Viper does/did. It has torque sensors, and linearizes throttle position off of it. If that was the case, extremely highly powered cars would be far less threatening, similarily, you could design a self correcting throttle that adapts based on the road conditions as well as the gear you are in.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Joe_Limon 01/16/2014 at 16:35

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So torque goes hand in hand with throttle position is what that means? I am having trouble grasping this concept, haha.

Funny you bring up the viper as it is known to have an active desire to kill its operator. But I assume you speak of the newest iteration?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MIATAAAA 01/16/2014 at 16:37

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http://www.flyinmiata.com/projects/OTC/G…

deekster_caddy > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:40

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It depends somewhat on the car, but 300 HP is a good general figure. I am one of those sad sacks that thinks Torque is still the more important number.

Big old RWD steel frame and body cars, 500 is a nice figure for lb ft on a street driver. 700-800 is nice for a street/drag car. Drag only? Go as high as you can afford, or your slicks can handle...

Road track driving, I have no idea. Sounds like there is no limit if you don't mind buying lots of tires.

302? I think yes > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:40

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I think the boost controller went to 12...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Hoccy 01/16/2014 at 16:41

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Are there any modern cars that are 2 tons with only 120 hp?

Joe_Limon > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 01/16/2014 at 16:44

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I know it was for the last generation of viper. Here let me clairfy what I mean.

Traditional throttle bodies are highly non linear, the first bit of motion of your gas pedal gives a far greater change in the resulting torque of an engine then the last bit of pedal movement.

What linearizing the throttle does, is make it so that a change of x amount of gas pedal position, yields y amount of torque change regardless of whether you are idling or red lining.

Linearizing throttle off of both the selected gear and pedal position means that as a driver, you always know how much force is at the wheels.

TwoFortified > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:46

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Dunno. 600 is a pretty big number I guess.

Then again (and this is the real problem with me even answering this question) I don't think I've ever had the distinct pleasure of driving a car that had more than, say, 350.

My hunch is that if I were to drive a 600hp beast for awhile, and got used to it, I'd be theoretically comfortable with more power, up to some logical limit where things just start to get absurd. I can't really imagine a number like 1100hp ever feeling practical on the street, even if I was the best goddamned driver in the world.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 16:49

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How much is too much? Very tricky to tell.

How much is just right? A little easier.

I'd say 130-200 (+/-20) in a proper lightweight car (0-999kg) seems about right. 200-300 (+/-50) in something 1000-1400kg, and 300-450 (+/-50) in something 1400-1800kg.

The odd monstrously powerful dinky little car is great fun, but as a rule, for street cars it's good to be able to wring it out without tooo much risk to the life and limb of others.

KB Garage > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/16/2014 at 16:57

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Less than 2,000lbs. 190hp.

Hoccy > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/16/2014 at 16:57

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Volvo V70 D2 - 1714 kg, 115hp, 67hp/tonne
Skoda Superb 1.6d - 1466 kg, 105hp, 70hp/tonne
Ford Mondeo 1.6d - 1505 kg, 115hp, 76hp/tonne
Peugeot 508 1.6 HDi - 1390 kg, 112hp, 80hp/tonne

I could find more as well, but in general big wagons with small diesels. These are common in Europe. Not slow either, I've driven the Volvo and that would easily keep up on the Autobahn.

Anima > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 17:00

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There is this quote one of the guys from roadkill once said (yet I don't think he was the first to say it):

There is no such thing as too much horsepower, just not having enough traction.

But yeah in daily use.. it depends on the car. But generally around 250-300 I think would be the sweet spot.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Joe_Limon 01/16/2014 at 17:02

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They have this....

Its called DCT lol. But seriously, DCT is exactly what you're explaining. Whether its controlled by loss of traction, controlling of boost by gear, or controlling of TPS by gear/pedal voltage (drive by wire). The reason it gets a bad rap is because you and I, along with everyone else, has a different idea of how much control we want versus how much the car needs to control itself.

Personally, I hate any DCT, whether it makes my lap times significantly faster or not. I want to be in full control, because otherwise I can't guess when the PCM is going to kick DCT into effect or not. But I can teach myself that if I hit a corner doing 70 instead of 60, that I'm going to oversteer.

crowmolly > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 17:04

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On the street,

300 for a normie

500 for an enthusiast

And I say that because enthusiasts typically respect the car more and immerse themselves in the driving experience vs. zone out on the phone or singing to the radio. You KNOW not to dick around with your right foot because you have a better understanding of the consequences.

Joe_Limon > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 01/16/2014 at 17:15

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Erm... do you mean CVT?

The concept of linearizing throttle isn't along the lines of computer intervention. Rather the computer making the vehicle more predictable. It would be like using a steering rack that is super sensitive near zero degrees, and has almost no effect near the limit. Such a vehicle would suck balls to drive, yet we put up with similar controls with our throttle control.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Hoccy 01/16/2014 at 17:21

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200 lb/ft of torque helps. Diesels are a bit of a different ballgame.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > KB Garage 01/16/2014 at 17:22

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I want one.

But 2 tons = 4000 lbs

Hoccy > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/16/2014 at 17:30

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Of course, but the smallest petrol isn't very much larger. And you don't have to go that far back in time to have even lower figures. The 60hp/tonne limit is what you need to keep up with traffic, at least in my mind and world.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Joe_Limon 01/16/2014 at 17:32

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Any drive by wire car linearizes throttle. If you look at a typical cable driven throttle car the throttle can be very sudden and has no linear control other than your own inputs, whereas a drive-by-wire (ie. throttle input controlled by pedal voltage outputs not direct control) is very linear on throttle response.

The benefit of this, is that when the car goes to intervene by means of traction control or DCT the two act very differently. In the cable-driven car the traction control has to implement itself by means of limiting spark or fuel. Whereas the drive-by-wire car is already controlling throttle input by electronics, therefor all it does is decrease that output throttle voltage until it regains traction or control.

So essentially modern day TCS and DCT systems do linearize throttle response. If you floor a 2013 GT500 with traction control on and the car starts to lose traction, the TPS voltage drops dramatically from where it should be as if you left off the throttle yourself. You can keep the pedal mashed all you want, but it's only outputting the amount of throttle it feels is useful.

CPT Speedbump > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 17:39

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It depends the car of course, personally I have no need for anything over 1200. 1200 would be more then enough too I'm sure, lol

It's a "Porch-uh" > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 17:43

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For a street car, I'm happy with 400HP. The traction control doesn't kick on too often (or ever, once I get into third on dry tarmac) and my head still snaps back when I mash the throttle.

If you have a track/race car that you can fit massive tires on, 600-700HP is good IMO.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 17:50

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Unless it's AWD and has a high performance/automatic gearbox, I wouldn't trust myself with any more than 375-400hp. I'm not good enough of a driver yet.
I think the "sweet spot" is a car with about 180-190hp, and 210-220ft-lbs

Joe_Limon > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 01/16/2014 at 18:05

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Yes, but there is a vast gap between the performance of current gen throttle by wire systems and the system in the viper. The common version intervenes when and if the vehicles senses wheel spin, hence, it is invasive. The one in the viper senses and adjusts input actively. And no, it has been my experience that most drive by wire systems don't even compensate for throttle body/flow geometry, as such these vehicles are very perky in the low rev range but feel dead as you apply the last bits of throttle.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Joe_Limon 01/16/2014 at 18:47

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I'm not sure that I'm following you. No car can predict the future, even the viper is just reacting to what it senses through ABS sensors, wheels spin, throttle position, etc. Its not any different than any other TCS or DCT system. Maybe it's tuned to be more or less controlling, sure, but it reacts from the same variables and in the same manner.

Drive-by-wire gets a bad rep for being "lacking" but it's not the drive-by-wire, it's the way the systems are tuned. I tuned mustangs and other cars myself. The mustang swapped to drive-by-wire in 2005 and stock they're exactly like what you said, lacking in the top end of throttle response. But with a simple tune and adjusting the way the PCM reacts to the TPS you can get that same response throughout the entire pedal and rev range.

Most manufacturers just don't care enough to design it the way that most of us want. They're more worried about fuel economy and other fiddly bits, than making a fire-breathing V8 that blows your eye balls out all the way to 8,000 rpms.

JGrabowMSt > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 19:17

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Opponauts! Shes a keeper! I asked the lady, and she immediately anawered "theres no such thing as too much horsepower."

Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/16/2014 at 19:32

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I've got a fiar amount of power in my car, and I can do a mid 12 quarter mile.

I get used to that car way to quickly, other people are terrified in it, meanwhile I'm just calmly rowing gears.

but today the car scared the shit out of me.

I haven't driven it a few days, and have been using the beater truck, so I hopped in it to take it to work, and jesus christ I didn't expect the power delivery that thing put out

Joe_Limon > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 01/16/2014 at 19:37

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Let me try explaining it another way.

Most of the systems in place have terribad feed back loops. They rely on preset settings and whether there is too much wheel slip.

The viper has a live feed back system, that continuously adjusts the throttle to be more predictable.

As an example, say you had two control systems to fill a bucket with water. The first one can measure water level and adjust the flow rate. While the second has a sensor that tells if the bucket is over flowing and a control to turn off the water. Traditional drive by wire adjustments are far closer to that second example in terms of feedback and response.

JACU - I've got bonifides. > Spaze 01/16/2014 at 20:39

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The right amount of horsepower is in its use, not in its number.

Gizmo - The Only Good Gremlin, but don't feed me after Midnight > Spaze 01/17/2014 at 01:05

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O.K. I've read the article, read through the current comments, and in the back of my head keeps echoing something I was told by the USAFE Commander about my role in Operation Allied Force (Kosovo), "You can never bring too many bullets to a gunfight." Fighting that urge, I agree with rusto and Yowen it really depends on the power to weight ratio, not merely horsepower.

I currently race a car with 1:4 power to weight (502RWHP) and I'm at the limits of the stock suspension and tires (that getting fixed as we speak). With the best that's out there, my skills/pucker factor would never improve with anything over 1:2 power to weight.

Drag racing is different. My high school drag car had 850+ and that wasn't enough.

My DD is just over 5:1 power to weigh and I think its just fine. But what I really want in all forms of automotive use is unlimited torque. Torque translates closer to how fast you can acceleration than HP. Once you have that then you need to be able to use it. No offense to Mark Donahue but if I can translate massive torque with grip - I'll beat him to that next turn every time! And yes, I have done full Afterburner take-offs in fighters and nothing on the ground will ever compare to it!

Biodegradable Wiring Harness > Spaze 01/17/2014 at 02:28

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Cars keep getting heavier and grippier, so power is more useful than it used to be. For maximum fun, you want to be able to break traction in the twisties anyplace where it doesn't mean wildly exceeding the speed limit. I'd say 300 HP for FWD, 400 for RWD, 500 for AWD.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Joe_Limon 01/17/2014 at 09:29

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You're analogy is incorrect, because no TCS or DCT system completely shuts down the throttle. Just like in your buckets, all TCS or DCT is going to do is adjust the flow rate (ie. throttle input) until it comes back to a safe level.

So let's use your bucket scenario again, but this time in regards to my original point.

Bucket number one is the Viper. When the water level gets too high it adjusts the flow to one gallon per minute.

Bucket number two is a GT500. When the water level gets too high it adjusts the flow to two gallons per minute.

Both are reacting from the same sensors/inputs, but one is just tuned to react more or less harshly than the other. That's all the Viper does, or any car that has an "advanced" DCT system for that matter. They all react from the same variables and can't react until it reaches some point of breaking (ie. tire slip, brakes locking up, etc.). The only difference is to what extent they react.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/17/2014 at 09:55

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The numbers I've found on the internet are 1539 kg/ 3393 lbs.

I've probably shaved a bit of that off though with the removal of the old cast iron intake manifold changing over to aluminum. I swear that was a 80 lb weight difference!

Sunray09 > Spaze 01/17/2014 at 10:00

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2 WD probably 650 hp..AWD 800+ HP is useless if you cant ''hook up''

Joe_Limon > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 01/17/2014 at 10:08

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No... your analogy implies they have the same sensors/controls and they are just tuned differently.

My analogy implies a step response compared to a continuously variable response.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Joe_Limon 01/17/2014 at 10:19

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And your analogy is incorrect. I've driven a 2013 GT500, multiple Z06s, a new Focus ST, and my own Cobra and Focus. They all act the exact same in reference to TCS. If you start to spin, or break traction in anyway, that TCS system kicks in and modulates that throttle input down until it starts to catch traction again.

It acts the same in a 600hp GT500 as it does in a 160hp Focus. There is no difference. It sees tire slip, it limits throttle input (whether the pedal is mashed or not), and it does so until traction is regained. Not a single car cuts throttle input completely. They all respond in the same manner, and from the same variables. There is no "step response versus continuous", they are all continuous because they are constantly managing throttle input until traction is regained.

Joe_Limon > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 01/17/2014 at 10:22

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Exactly, these systems are "dumb" because they kick in when you hit the limit, they can only do that because they are based off of wheel speed and can only sense when you are already past the point of no return.

The vipers system is NOT like this, it can adjust the throttle position when the car still has traction, and it does so to maximize the predictability of the engine. It is not a nanny so much as it is making the car more intuitive.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Joe_Limon 01/17/2014 at 10:38

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No it can't. It doesn't know what the car is going to do. It doesn't know if in a 1/4 of a second you may slam on brakes to dive into a corner versus going full WOT. It has no idea.

All it can do is go off of what the sensors are giving it as information. How much throttle is being given, is their tire spin, are the brakes locking up? Thats all any PCM can see. Without having a digital layout of a map or road it cannot "predict" anything.

And actually after some further research it looks like the Viper has no type of TCS or DCT system: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/20…

Also many Viper owners set about adding standalone PCMs to actually ADD a traction control system. http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-di…

Joe_Limon > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 01/17/2014 at 11:41

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Yes it can... the system in the viper isn't traction control, it isn't invasive it is there to help make it more predictable.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Joe_Limon 01/17/2014 at 12:19

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It has no traction control. It has nothing. Hell it barely even got ABS added during the second gen from what I'm reading.

Joe_Limon > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 01/17/2014 at 12:20

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I never said it had any of that. The system I'm describing isn't a safety aid.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Joe_Limon 01/17/2014 at 12:22

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So you're telling me that it is controlling and manipulating the throttle depending on the situation that the car is in, but yet its not traction control?

You might want to pass this along to Viper owners because they obviously have no idea of this system either.

Joe_Limon > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 01/17/2014 at 12:37

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Please go back, and re-read my original post. My description of a system that adapts to road conditions was how I said you could design a system.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Joe_Limon 01/17/2014 at 13:49

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And that is TCS and DCT.

"Adapting to road conditions" is exactly what TCS and DCT does. Whether its simply by modifying throttle input in low traction situations or active aerodynamics, it is adapting to the situation.

If you want something that is going to predict the future or be able to tell whether you're driving on a sticky track or a dusty road, then you're going to be waiting a long time. But realistically, what you are asking for is what modern day TCS and DCT does.

Joe_Limon > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 01/17/2014 at 14:03

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Yes, the system I am imagining is like TCS/DCT. The difference being, that when your vehicle loses traction, it has the capacity to remember how much torque was being put to the wheels at the time and adjust accordingly to its own internal algorithms. Heck, even sliding sideways on a slippery bit of road can be fed into the cars computer to tell the ECU relatively how much traction it has. These systems would be 10x better then the OOP SORRY YOU CANNOT PASS of our current systems.

Saf1 > Wacko 01/24/2014 at 22:57

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Yea, a better way to phrase this would be -> power : weight

Hanzr > Joe_Limon 01/25/2014 at 10:03

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With all due respect, that sounds like a TC though... Then why not just fitting a TC on it?

Hanzr > 302? I think yes 01/25/2014 at 10:04

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12 Bar?

Joe_Limon > Hanzr 01/25/2014 at 18:31

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That is like comparing cruise control to drive by wire.

Hanzr > Joe_Limon 01/25/2014 at 22:15

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Maybe I didn't grasp your idea on the sensor-wired throttle body. My understanding on it is that the throttle can "read" the road's grip, and automatically adjust its position to utilize the maximum grip and avoid tire spins. If I got it correctly, then I suppose that it's of the same intention (and mechanism in some sense, i.e. TC by changing ignition timing) as traction control.